General Taylor flask - is it a repro?

AZurlo

Hi everyone. I was looking for some help with a "General Taylor Never surrenders" bottle. I am in NJ near the old Clevenger works, so I guess it could be a repro, but a local bottle guy was not sure and said I should ask some experts! Can anyone help? Note that in the picture of the neck the top looks like it has a chip out of it. This is not a chip, it is smooth. Thanks in advance!

AZurlo

After looking at the Washington Taylor Flask page it seems to me that perhaps the orange peel effect means mine is a Clevenger. Any help would be appreciated! thanks!

BobB

Hmmm, I AM NOT A BOTTLE GUY, but all these discussions about possible reproduced bottles in NJ reminded me that I just borrowed (from the library of the Little Rhody Bottle Club) Tom Haunton's 2011 book, "Last Links to the Past: 20th Century South Jersey Glass -- Volume 1 - Clevenger Brothers"... and guess what, Haunton says the Washington Taylor flask was in production & available from the Clevenger's wholesale catalog from August 1935 thru 1999, and the mold was sold off in April 2005. This reproduction is listed in the book's category of most common & most available. 8" hi X 6" "Can appear with and without a pontil mark within a one inch diameter false pontil indentation. Examples made after 1966 can appear without the false pontil indentation. Can appear with or without "CB" initials." The book makes no comments about colors produced and the photographed examples are in dark purple-red amber. Yours does not seem to have either a real pontil scar or the Clevenger fake pontil depression. So you need another expert -- Help! Chris! -- to weigh in on how the neck & lip could have been made without being attached to a punty rod, etc. etc. Now, I have only just now gotten this book open to find your quest - so I have not read anything else in this 421 page hardcover with 606 footnotes (phonecalls, interviews with Clevenger family members & workers, archives, letters, contacts with museums & collectors & bottle dealers). Chris or somebody who knows 1840 bottle construction technique needs to jump in here and analyze whether your neck/lip are correct. Happy hunting. -- GlassBobB

AZurlo

Thanks for the info. I am not a bottle guy either, and the more I research the more confused I get- though it has been fun! I will try and get a better picture of the pontil scar and post it later today. No CB anywhere on it. It looks close to pictures I have found of other Clevenger reproductions, but is different enough to confuse me! Living so close to the old Clevenger Works I just am assuming it came from them. I have a box of other old bottles I found in the attic of the house we just purchased, I will post some of them in a different thread in time. In the meantime, anymore help with this one would be great! It just doesn't seem to fit exactly any description of the Clevenger reproductions I can find.

AZurlo

another pic of the bottom of the bottle. Anyone else have any thoughts?!

historic

The bottle is modern and could very well be Clevenger.

The orange peel texture to the glass can be found on 19th century bottles but is unusual, and one does see it on Clevenger glass. Probably only Tom Haunton could say for sure if he has seen one like this from known Clevenger stock, but reasonably safe to assume so.

The glass is too heavy for most all 19th century historical flasks, that color is found on 19th c. glass but would be scarce for sure in a flask, and the only flask bases that I have seen like that have a mold seam across the long axis.

Chris

AZurlo

Chris, thanks so much for taking the time to reply. Just curious, is that a fake pontil scar?

Since I am not a collector I was thinking of selling the bottles I found- is it even worth it? Or is there no worth here? And if I sell it do I call it a Clevenger bottle? And is ebay as good as any a place to sell if it's worth it? Maybe I will just start collecting!
Sorry for all the questions! Thanks!

wcwater

I have an amethyst version of this bottle dug in a gold mining ghost town in
northern california in the thirties. It is broken pontil, applied neck and the coloring
is great - even without professional cleaning. It reveals a protective nature probably resulting from a leather type covering. I kept it in a case with many other lesser bottles until a visitor who was a bottle person saw it and said it woukld be wise to protect it!
I need to post picture so others can enjoy!

historic

Hi @wcwater - welcome.

Yes, we would love to see photos. Sounds like an incredible flask.

Sometimes bottles do come out of the ground in incredible condition - soil moisture and possibly pH have some role as well.

Chris